I recently became interested in Enneagram after attending an MBTI meeting with INFJs and finding out that I have enneagram 5w4. Among this personality system, 5w4 enneagrm is rare similar
to how rare INFJ types are in MBTI. In this post I want to discuss the INFJ enneagram and how Type 5 Enneagram relates to INFJs.
After reading about it for some time I have come to the conclusion that MBTI is brain functioning and Enneagram is about morals and values in life. In combination they can describe a person good and compliment each other well.
There also seems to be a correlation between MBTI types and Enneagram types to a certain degree. Here is some interesting reading concerning this subject:
Enneagram Type Test On-Line Stats:
http://www.9types.com/rheti/stats.html
Table of Enneagram Marriage Frequencies:
http://www.9types.com/writeup/enneagram_marriages.html
Enneagram Type and MBTI Type Compared (Statistics):
http://personalitycafe.com/enneagram-personality-theory-forum/85323-enneagram-type-mbti-type-compared-statistics.html
This is a great book explaining everything you need to know about Enneagram, highly recommended:
The Wisdom of the Enneagram: The Complete Guide to Psychological and Spiritual Growth for the Nine Personality Types
I’ve also done a bunch of Enneagram tests myself and recently bought the Riso-Hudson Enneagram Type Indicator test which is a scientifically validated test for testing your Enneagram type. You can find it here: http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/
My results concerning my own Enneagram type is that I’m a 5w4. Here is some information about the 5w4 type that I’ve copied:
5w4 – The Five with a Four-Wing: “The Iconoclast”
The traits of the Five and those of the Four reinforce each other in many ways. Both Five and Four are withdrawn types: they turn to the inner world of their imagination to defend their egos and to reinforce their sense of self.
They both feel that something essential in themselves must be found before they can live their lives completely. Fives lack the confidence to act, and Fours lack a strong, stable sense of identity. Thus, Fives with a Four-wing have difficulty connecting with others and staying grounded.
People of this subtype are more emotional and introverted than Fives with a Six-wing, althrough paradoxically, they tend to be more sociable than the other subtype. As a result of their Four component, they are also more interested in the personal and intrapsychic.
The two types also have some significant differences in their approach. Fives are cerebral, holding experience at arm’s length, while Fours internalize everything to intensify their feelings.
Despite these differences–or because of them–these two personality types make one of the richest subtypes, combining possibilities for outstanding artistic as well as intellectual achievement.
Albert Einstein, Werner Heisenburg, Friedrich Nietzsche, Georgia O’Keeffe, John Cage, John Lennon, k. d. lang, Laurie Anderson, James Joyce, Emily Dickinson, Stanley Kubrick, David Lynch, Buster Keaton, Gary Larson, Stephen King, Tim Burton, Clive Barker, Franz Kafka, Umberto Eco, Jean-Paul Sartre, Oriana Fallaci, Glenn Gould, Peter Serkin, Hannah Arendt, Kurt Cobain, and Vincent van Gogh.
In healthy people of Enneagram 5w4 subtype:We find the union of intuition and knowledge, sensitivity and insight, aesthetic appreciation and intellectual endowments.
Fives with a Four-wing are likely to be involved in the arts as writers, directors, designers, musicians, composers, choreographers, and so forth. The subtype has been somewhat overlooked in many descriptions of Fives because they do not fit the stereotype of the academic/scientific Five (the Five with a Six-wing).
This subtype is more synthetic in its thinking, pulling things together and seeking out new ways of looking at things, Also, Fives with a Four-wing tend to utilize their imaginations more than the analytic, systematic parts of the mind which are more the domain of the other subtype.
If they are involved in science, Fives with a Four-wing are drawn to those areas in which there is less emphasis on experimentation and data collection than on intuition and comprehensive vision.
This subtype is particularly aware of–and on the lookout for–the beauty in a mathematical formula, for example. For this subtype, beauty is one of the indications of truth, because the order which beauty represents is a confirmation of the objective rightness of an idea.
One of the foremost strengths of healthy Fives with a Four-wing lies precisely in their intuition, since intuition helps them uncover areas of knowledge where their conscious thoughts have not yet ventured. The
Four-wing adds a desire to find a unique, personal vision to the curiosity and perceptiveness of the Five, and the result is a propensity to “tinker” with familiar forms until they become something almost unrecognizable.
In talented Fives with a Four-wing this can lead to startling innovations in their chosen fields of endeavor.
In Average Fives with a Four-wing, Enneagram 5w4:The Four-wing adds emotional depth, but causes difficulties in sustaining efforts and in working with others. Fives with a Four-wing are more independent than Fives with a Six-wing and resist having structures and deadlines imposed on them.
There can be an off-putting detachment from the environment, both because they are involved in their thoughts and because they are introverted and emotionally self-absorbed.
Analytic powers may be used to keep people at arm’s length rather than to understand them more deeply. Emotionally delicate, people of this subtype can be moody and hypersensitive to criticism, particularly regarding the value of their work or ideas, since this impinges directly upon self-esteem.
Both component types tend to withdraw from people and be reclusive. They can be highly creative and imaginative, envisioning alternate realities in great detail, but can get lost in their own cerebral landscapes.
The Four-wing gives a propensity to fantasizing, but with the Five with the Four-wing, the subject matter tends toward the surreal and fantastic rather than the romantic. Individuals of this subtype can become highly impractical, spending most of their time reading, playing intellectual games, or specializing in trivia.
There is often an attraction to dark, forbidden subject matter or to any way of self-expression which would disturb or upset others. Some Fives with a Four-wing become fascinated with the macabre and the horrific.
As they become more impractical and fearful about their possibilities in life, one typical solution is to find emotional solace in various forms of self-indulgence–in alcohol, drugs, or sexual escapades.
Unhealthy persons of 5w4 Enneagram subtype:May fall prey to debilitating depressions yet be disturbed by aggressive impulses. Envy of others mixes with contempt for them; the desire to isolate the self from the world mixes with regret that it must be so.
Intellectual conflicts make their emotional lives seem hopeless, while their emotional conflicts make intellectual work difficult to sustain. Moreover, if this subtype becomes neurotic, it is one of the most alienated of all of the personality types: profoundly hopeless, nihilistic, self-inhibiting, isolated from others, and full of self-hatred.
Unhealthy Fives with a Four-wing retreat into a very bleak, minimal existence, attempting to cut off from all needs. The self-rejection and dispair of the Four combines with the cynical nihilism of the Five to create a worldview that is relentlessly negative and terrifying. Social isolation, addiction, and chronic depression are common. Suicide is a real possibility.
I can relate to a lot of this and have definitely experienced the unhealthy aspect of it. I’m very introverted and intuitive, the intuitive aspect of my personality brings me my HSP sensitivities and introversion amplifies them.
I tend to have to withdraw often to recharge and struggle to keep control of my feelings. I’m detached from reality and experience feelings of disembodied from reality on a daily basis, I think this is what feeds my need to use my Se function since it grounds me in reality.
I’m predominately a feeler in my values and morals but I’m stuck in my mind thinking all the time. Interested in science, psychology, technology, paranormal subjects and tend to lean towards the mystical instead of rational.
I like to investigate and understand the world around me and as a child I used to break things apart and put them back together again to understand how they worked. Always had a big imagination and love the arts. I studied programming growing up and was good at it but ended up working
with digital arts and media because I enjoy that even more.
Probably because it also feeds my inferior function Se as an INFJ, for both good and worse. When I’m stressed I can be very self indulgent and neurotic, isolating myself from the world both in my mind and externally.
Here are some results from cognitive tests I’ve done recently, I feel that I di
ffer somewhat from other INFJs and in some aspects are similar to INFPs. But as you can se my Si inferior is very poorly developed as INFJs/INTJs. If anybody else can relate to any of this please feel free to comment!
Introverted Intuition (Ni) |||||||||||||||||||||||| 11.29Extroverted Intuition (Ne) ||||||||||||||||||||||| 10.58Extroverted Feeling (Fe) |||||||||||||||||| 8.07Introverted Feeling (Fi) ||||||||||||| 5.85Extroverted Thinking (Te) ||||||| 2.93Introverted Thinking (Ti) ||| 0.69Extroverted Sensation (Se) || -2.2Introverted Sensation (Si) |||| -3.23Your Extroverted Intuition (Ne) is very developed.Your Introverted Intuition (Ni) is very developed.Your Introverted Thinking (Ti) is moderate.Your Extroverted Thinking (Te) is moderate.Your Extroverted Feeling (Fe) is moderate.Your Introverted Feeling (Fi) is moderate.Your Extroverted Sensation (Se) is low.Your Introverted Sensation (Si) is low.Humanmetrics Jung Typology Test™Your Type INFJIntrovert(78%) iNtuitive(100%) Feeling(88%) Judging(33%)
- You have strong preference of Introversion over Extraversion (78%)
- You have strong preference of Intuition over Sensing (100%)
- You have strong preference of Feeling over Thinking (88%)
- You have moderate preference of Judging over Perceiving (33%)
This is the most sharply insightful summary of the INTJ/INFJ 5w4 profile I have ever read, and that is speaking as an embarrassingly voracious seeker on the topic. I feel I have lived each of the three scenarios in excruciating concordance with the descriptions.
While reading this post, I constantly felt violated. The real way to understand yourself is definitely by combining your MBTI type with your enneagram. Before that I tried to fit in with INTJs INTPs and INFPs but something always felt amiss.
Thank you for this post. Now I know for sure I’m not weird and despite being from the least minority of population, I’m definitely not the only one.
I’m an INFJ that works in Analytics. Depending on the MTBI test I take, I’m often considered as an INTJ. However, I’m not confident and direct enough to be an INTJ. People around me thinks I’m extra sensitive but people that doesn’t know me well or see me in my work environment thinks I’m an INTJ. I care for people way too much and I understand them easily. I’m seen as social but an hermit at the same type. It’s a strange feeling to love people so much but to love being alone even more. When I see people, I get drained and I have anxiety attacks. I saw a therapist for agoraphobia, lol. But I make friends super easily. I just never call them.
As a kid, I was always playing alone and asking my parents to tell my friends I wasn’t home. However, I had a lot of friend. I had good grades in math and literature. Always felt like I loved writing more but since I had very good grades in math, everyone was pushing me in another direction because I could make more money. Now, I wish I was an engineer, lol.
My brain is constantly running. I love strategy, concept, puzzle and logic. I just know that deep down I’m a softy. I love psychology a lot. I buy academic books even if I’m not in the field. I also love to understand serial killers and deeply wounded people, however, my softy side is so afraid of everything dark that I often cry or get insomnia after watching tv shows, lol!
Before finding that I’m also an 5w4 I always felt like my heart was an INFJ but my mind an INTJ. Now I get it! Well, partially. Thanks for sharing.
Would love to connect!
Sorry for the typos!
Relatable., Infj 5w4 🫂
Hello I liked your descriptions of life and appreciate for humans but strong preference for being alone. Same here. I always test INTJ but I actually dislike maths and have hang ups about numbers. I can do it but it feels like hard work. Whereas language, literature and psychology/psychiatry are super compelling. I also strongly dislike people arguing and conflict and yet INTJs seems to not be bothered by that. Bizarrely I’m an a lawyer specialising in litigation and appear in court a lot. But in that context disputes are okay. Though I am very, very good at mediation. I identify strongly when I read about INFJ but also aspects of INTJ. When I read about and tested over and over as an enneagram 5w4 that made sense. That fits me 100% and I think I’m INFJ but I actually have learnt not to care too much either way. What I’ve learned about Myers Briggs and the enneagram has helped me a lot. No one who knows me would believe what an introvert I am. I’m glad you have friends. I actually don’t really think I have proper friends at all to be brutally honest though I don’t appear that way. Sometimes I worry about it but when I think about it I can’t identify anyone I’d actually want to contact. Maybe you should become an engineer? I’d like to have been a psychiatrist but there was the maths issues.
Ps sorry for the dumb typos. I’m tying on my phone in bed.
Holy shit I think we’re the same person
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This is a very insightful article for a fictional character I’ve been writing in a story. Note that I am not an INFJ myself (I am an INTJ and have not yet tested my enneagram). However, I’ve been trying to figure out the personality type of a character I’ve written in a story. She is the most psychologically complicated character I’ve ever created. But she is also one member of an ensemble, so I tend to balance focus between many different characters. So how much I can explore her psyche in the writing depends on the confines of the narrative structure.
I vaguely intuited that my character seemed INFJ, yet she has unique values and a dynamic arc that made it hard for me to be sure, I wondered if she might be INTJ like myself instead. But I tend to think of her as being sensitive to the external feelings and values of her environment and even drawing on those for inspiration in her ideas, and she seems less interested in managing the environment in a strictly practical and technical way. Though during certain times in her life she has been more withdrawn and dismissive of people and more preoccupied with technical interests as well as her own passions. But she also felt an increasingly overwhelming guilt and conflict for doing so, to the extent that she split into two personalities, one who took on her more conscientious side and one who took on her more ambitious side.
So finally I took an enneagram test for her and determined she was 5w4, although the website locked me from being able to learn a lot about this personality without paying. So I then did a search for 5w4 INFJ’s, and I came to this article.
Some things you wrote resonate with some features of her story. Like the mixed interest in analytical fields such as science and paranormal though with a somewhat mystical bent, or the childhood interest in imaginatively putting things together, or the feeling of being detached and disembodied from reality at times. (Though in the case of my character’s story, she actually does become more detached and disembodied in a physical sense due to the otherworldly direction her journey takes…)
My character has a dynamic blend of attitudes and she has changed over the course of her arc. She has an interest in trying to synthesize both the spiritual and the mechanical, trying to bring machines to life by imbuing them with spirit from her studies of the paranormal, though later on rejecting this pursuit consequences. At times depending on what point she is in her life, her outlook has ranged from being more spiritual or more technical, more optimistic or more pessimistic, more people-concerned or more work-concerned, more moralistic or more ambitious, more confident or more guilt-ridden, more isolated or more involved.
Anyway, thanks for the article, it was interesting to read! And I think it gives me more favor to my initial intuition that the character I’ve written is an INFJ. Though I still can’t say for sure, especially due to the psychological damage and supernatural experience her mind has undergone. It’s possible her cognitive structure was even shifted into a different personality type altogether.
I apparently didn’t finish refining a certain sentence of this comment, so I wanted to complete it:
>She has an interest in trying to synthesize both the spiritual and the mechanical, trying to bring machines to life by imbuing them with spirit from her studies of the paranormal, though later on rejecting this pursuit consequences.<
The last bit of that should say that she rejected the pursuit due to more spiritual concerns for spiritual consequences of it.
I had originally written a complete sentence there, but I started to adjust it and forgot to finish it. You know how Ni can overlook the little details!
This was good because I’m a 5w4 and my husband is a 5w6 and the differences you discussed are accurate, especially the social aspect, because I might have more friends (not by much, lol) and more easily get deeper relationships, he has a much easier time interacting with people in public. He’s a LOT less awkward and more social when we are out with people.
I am an average INFJ 5w4 HSP who recently spent 4 years being trapped in a situation that left me an unhealthy INFJ 5s4 HSP. Very debilitating over time. I couldn’t even perceived how bad off I was until the stress caused my brain to shut my body down. My blood pressure had gotten so high it was up to 170 and I only weigh 130 lbs. I was experiencing panic attacks which I didn’t recognize for what they were when they started because I had never had them before. Thankfully, I was able to get out right when the pandemic quarantine was in place in April 2020. Now it is just trying to comeback to average in an unknown future. I take solace in the fact that in the past 6 months I know what to expect for the next 12 months. Although that isn’t good, it gives me some footing.
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This post man. Wow. Well thank you for helping me confirm I’m pretty damn sure I’m a 5w4. I’m an INFJ and finally decided to get into the whole thing that is the enneagram. I just took a few simpler tests of it that were free online but was pretty sure I was a 5 bc it resonated with my most innate state of being, especially throughout my entire childhood. Didn’t know yet exactly my wing was most likely 4 until I took a test from a second site that put me as most likely being a 5w4. Once I found this post it was all the confirmation I needed. This is pretty much me, except I’m a bit different in regards to interests I guess. I was always good at math and took pre-calc in eighth grade & stuff but knew I didn’t want to be an engineer or anything ever, little desire for calc. I’m not a fan of taking on science myself, am not so interested in studying psychology as a subject since certain situations can be annoyingly emphasized upon and I don’t see why it’s that fascinating- you’re just studying human tendencies and how their minds can differ (been doing some of that since birth).
At this point I’m choosing to study within the realm of accounting and whatnot. Not the most visually stimulating, but I’m not particularly interested in the arts because I myself prefer a set routine. I’m good at writing, but I don’t have the mind to write more than one book or so if I ever do. I can draw if I try, but it isn’t a hobby. Hopefully I don’t end up in digital arts & media bc though I did take marketing in high school and PS/illustrator was fun, the career circumstances for the arts isn’t something I want. Genuinely, I’m not talented enough to feel like it’s a calling for me. I’m sticking to this for now, maybe one day I can get a bit more creative with the field I’m going for right now.
Also– I don’t understand how alcohol/sexcapades are what so many people in this world fall to. Maybe I’m just that detached from the physical or my ideals are that high but it’s sad to me that they end up going that route when you’re essentially destroying your body. Well, maybe that might come with the self hatred. I’ve never been able to hate myself much. I observed the world, understood the dynamics, and came to terms that things would get better when I got older because of the fundamental ignorance most adults display about children. I didn’t bother blaming myself because things eventually come to terms and I was just there riding along aloof up in the clouds anyway. Luckily I manifested a sense of self based on purely my values and therefore I am who I feel I need to be to hopefully make it through this life as a 5w4. I hope people realize that alcohol/sexcapades/drugs don’t give any semblence. They are merely parts of life humans tend to exploit for a sense of difference. People like us are different enough as it is lol. I percieve this self destructive route as a tangible tantrum toward life. ~Hence why young ppl trying to navigate life start off & make a sort of hobby out of it.
Hi there. Trauma does that to people. Well, at least me. I rarely have sexual impulses and rarely orgasm. But when I was in my alcohol addiction and able to be in my body, I had a bunch of sex as a way to understand connection. Both being a 5, having a religious background and having trauma.
When I first came across the MBTI based tests, I often tested as either INFJ, INTJ or INTP. After doing some research I came to the conclusion that I am an INFJ. My biggest challenge was on determining whether I was a Feeling or Thinking type. The fact that I always need to plan and have a framework within which to work to have a sense of direction helped me understand that I am definitely a J. What used to confuse me is the fact that my career interests seems to be quite different from typical infj. From childhood I have been interested in the STEM much more than any other field. I am far from being an artist but I do appreciate art. I find humanities interesting but not as something I can dedicate my life to. I am not a musician in anyway but do experience music deeper. I am not interested in the languages. In high school I used to score my lowest marks in English. My best subjects where Chemistry, Physics and Mathematics. I even had won awards in Chemistry and Mathematics. My intuition in these subjects was superb. I used to call it thinking without thinking. I used to find it hard to study Geography and History usually ending up sleeping in the process. I was however very much interested in physical Geography. Human Geography was my nightmare. I am an Engineer by profession. I cannot think of a better profession for myself.
I am very empathetic. I readily help others in need. I usually avoid conflicts. I only react when I am pushed to the end. I value human beings for who they are. However, I generally avoid spending too much time dealing with human issues. Honestly they wear me out and leaves little energy for me to pursue areas of my interest. It is for this same reason why I avoid conflicts. I don’t have friends just a few acquaintances. I generally have no need to establish close friendship. I am one person who is capable of spending a full week without physical contact with people.
All in all what I am trying to say here is that I know that I am definitely INFJ, enneagram 5W4. These personalities are a continuum and not two people with the same MBTI personality are exactly the same. It appears that for some INFJ there is a preference to skip the auxiliary function and instead use the tertiary function in the personality stacks as the Co pilot. I am not sure of the factors that causes these differences. it could even be upbringing. I must say that my sense of belonging to the INFJ was deepened when I read somewhere that Niels Bohr was INFJ.
Thank you for this article. I have just taken the Enneagram test and came up as a 5w4 and so I’m here now learning about it. This article is perfect because I am also an INFJ. This was sooo helpful! I can relate to alot of what you said in the last few paragraphs too and made me feel hopeful in a way. I will be returning to this website again for sure. Thanks and keep on doing what you’re doing :) <3
I’m an intp but 5w4 and found this very interesting. Ive always resonated with the intp type but was confused as it always pointed towards the sciences, which i was fine at, got Bs, but since being a child have always been more interested in the arts. im now studying English literature which is great as it allows me to be analytical but still creative. the 4 wing explains this – being a t, i still base decisions on thought rather than feeling and tbh im terrible at expressing my feelings, but i have a deep appreciation for philosophy, social sciences, art of all kinds (visual, performance, music, poetry) as i admire the wordplay/symbolism etc. anyway soz for my ramble!
I’m INTP 5w4 as well and that is so true of me. I’m interested in both Mathematics and the Arts. I was even obsessed with classical music during my childhood. Currently, I just graduated from college and planning to take up law. A lot of people say I have a crazy volume of interest. Other INTPs I know would rather focus in one field.
Hey, I just wanted to say thank you, an INFJ 5w4 here and on the path to learning more. I have kinda become science oriented and did a lot programming and ict and physics and am now doing selling computer and especially gaming components and doing logistics, and it has been a nice ride along the business and “everyday” world! ;) Although I feel a constant pull towards organizations and leading, perhaps, you know – people – I also feel like terribly drawn to the more mystical side of the world. I would really love to write, when I’ll have enough experience to write from, in my own quiet corner of the world, and also a slight pull to become academically spiritual (read = a monk), or, a creature of the cyberpunk underworld! We’ll see. :) <3
Oh God, I totally relate. I could have written this article. I’m INFJ 5w4 as well, I experience it in the same way you explained it. I even dissociate when stressed. And I also studied code and work currently in Digital Arts & Media (actually it looks like a pattern for 5w4s). I’m into science, arts, and paranormal and occult stuff as well. I don’t think I’m an HSP though, at least I hope not.
Hi! This was a really fantastic, and as a fellow 5w4 infj, I really related with almost everything you mentioned. Thank you
Thank You!
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